Author Topic: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)  (Read 568 times)

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saltmummy626

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2015, 06:30:55 pm »
They put a pay wall on the old one too. If you don't pay them, you can only play for 12 hours a month after your initial 48 hours are gone.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 07:32:59 pm by saltmummy626 »
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Exodus

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2015, 08:36:01 pm »
Wait, so you can still play... it's just you can only do 12 hours a month?

That's... not horrible really, considering a lot of things in Haven are just you clicking to do something and then just logging.
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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2015, 10:02:24 pm »
Nope, not playing that shit for money. I dont have much money, and ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Thanks Peri for making me question muh sexualities once again.
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Exodus

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2015, 10:28:00 pm »
I probably won't either then...
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saltmummy626

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2015, 10:39:24 pm »
Yeah it's confirmed to be a serious thing and not some hard core trolling on the devs part. I don't think it's possible to describe how deeply and profoundly disappointed I am.
I'm really just a sexy skeleton in a suit.
Fingering techniques are very important
Quote from: Six
Using guns while sober? Sounds like you're a coward.
Yes, little hats for every noodle.
Everyone is forks it seems.
"Everything is fucked forever, and ever, and ever." -Forrest 2016

ajwilli1

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2015, 03:07:30 am »
Its funny watching the fan boys try to give one good reason as to why its "fair". "ITS A BETTER VALUE THEN MOST MMOS!" Really now? You can play WoW for free, and you get a tight level cap, but most of the game is still open to you.

Besides that moot point. Doesn't half the shit in H&H take several days? I remember tanning a bide nearly taking a week to do. So I can play two days for free and get fuckall done in the process? Sure. Sounds like a totally fair trade off.


H&H is tideous and a very niche game, with a tiny userbase. This ain't going to help it grow.

RedVulnus

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2015, 03:14:29 am »
As a non fanboy there might be one of numerous legitimate reasons for going to a pay to play format. They may be unable to support development without money, or maybe they want to be able to live somewhere other then mother's basement, or possibly, just maybe, they've finally gotten to a point where they feel justified in asking for some money to be able to play the game fully. I don't get why people are mad, these guys have put a lot of effort into the game from the sounds of it so why not pay some cash if you enjoyed it? Other niche games have done similiar if I recall correctly, so it's not like this is a new thing where a free game went pay to play.

Bubbadoo

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2015, 03:35:48 am »
Well until the game was released I for one heard nothing of it going to be Pay 2 Win. Lot's of people were excited for the new game, and now we are met with sudden payments to be able to progress at a normal rate.

If they wanted money there is so many better ways to do this; like Kickstarter, Indiegogo, Patreon, etcetera. I know of no tale of a pay 2 win where no one complained about it at all, nor a pay 2 win that was very good or well liked for this feature.
I mean by your logic Vulnus, Dead Space 3 is alright for having Pay 2 Win because they might need the money. For a game like H&H pay 2 win will turn lot's of people off, like a lot of us on this thread actually.

ajwilli1

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2015, 03:59:51 am »
As a non fanboy there might be one of numerous legitimate reasons for going to a pay to play format. They may be unable to support development without money, or maybe they want to be able to live somewhere other then mother's basement, or possibly, just maybe, they've finally gotten to a point where they feel justified in asking for some money to be able to play the game fully. I don't get why people are mad, these guys have put a lot of effort into the game from the sounds of it so why not pay some cash if you enjoyed it? Other niche games have done similiar if I recall correctly, so it's not like this is a new thing where a free game went pay to play.

I'm far from a fanboy of Haven and Hearth, as a matter of fact I found the game to be like Farmville with Dwarf Fortress elements. The problem with Haven and Hearth (they did this for balance and "realism") is that you have to wait, a lot, like stupid amounts. Do you know in F2P games where you have that one building that gives you loads of money, but only works in 2-3 days. Well take that idea and apply that to getting something as basic as leather, or smelting ore, or basically anything that's required to get far in the early game.

So they put up a pay wall basically saying you get a few days a month to check your settlement and finally get to play with all that stuff you spent so many hours collecting. This basically means that if you go the Free-to-Play route, you have two days maximum to gather all the supplies you need, and try to get them prepped or hidden away well enough, so that when next month rolls around you can finally play with what you got. But there comes the problem of other players. While you're basically in a month-long coma, you can get murdered, raided, and have your stuff griefed.

So if you don't pay the $10 for your pay-to-win coin (yeah in order to extend your time you can pay $10 bucks for an in-game item that basically lets you have an extended trial period, the idea is to have people in the game trade fuck loads of items with each other to get this "life extension" coins), but why do that when (if you have a subscription, which is $15) you could just raid the trial-boy's home and loot all his shit that way.



I don't give a shit how desperate for money you are, you don't shaft half your fanbase, silence complaints, and just let the people carrying banners in your name keep cheering on. You know what happens on Steam when shit like this happens? Youtubers and press get a hold of it and make you look like something worse then Hitler.

They could've easily warned the community about the impending change, explaining everything, and been open to criticism. Because this exact business practice is what killed their other MMO that was about the Salem Witch Trials or something (it was basically, Sexy Witches the MMO).


The best way to implement some form of subscription fee for Haven&Hearth wouldn't be holding your shit hostage for the rest of the 28 days. It would've been better if they restricted higher levels of tech to paying players, stuff like steelworking, that magic system no one really uses, and mining. Basically the stuff that people with plenty of time and dedication to the game would pay for. While the new players could get a good taste of how the game works for plenty of time, and when they're ready to progress to town/civilized tech and materials. They shell out the $15 bucks a month to enjoy the more sophisticated side of the game, where PVP battles are everywhere, and people operate full kingdoms from their skull throne.

Because getting out of the early nomad stages where you live in a grass shelter, can't hunt, and all you can really do is look at thing to research stuff in order to get some form of progress (which can take minutes, hours, days, or weeks); is a long, long process that requires ridiculous amounts of coordination and cooperation.


Better analogy: The Nomad early stages are like a tutorial, while the town, pvp, kingdom building stuff in the "late game" is like the full game. So allowing people to get far enough to the "Civilized stage" and then making them pay for the game would be more then fair at that point.

RedVulnus

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2015, 01:56:30 pm »
Okay, chill dudes. First off dead space 3's micro transactions were bull shit, and I'm not saying what they did here isn't, but from everything said we've heard nothing from the side of the devs so they may have a legitimate reason. The difference from the two is that Dead Space you paid 60 bucks for whereas this has been a free game so far. And whilst I don't remember the name I do remember a game that had a very prolonged beta period that went pay to play. Also pay to play, and pay to win are two very different concepts, thank you very much bubbadoo. Okay this is shit too, just read some of what AJ posted and it is pretty shit and pay to win...
Locking the old version was a really shit move in my opinion, lock the new one and leave the old one would have been a far better strategy. And a lot of what AJ suggested would work, so I'm not saying there weren't better ways to do it, or that they should have done it at all. But for me seeing people complain about game makers who want some money for something they've worked hard on seems kind of...childish? no, but you get the point. They worked hard to make the thing and asking for compensation shouldn't be that big of a deal, though they probably should have used something like patreon or some such rather then this which DOES fuck over most of the fan base.
Either way I'm out, looks like some people are getting mad at me for some reason when I was attempting to have a discussion, but whatever shite happens so I'll just move myself along.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 02:10:02 pm by Vulnus »

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2015, 03:50:27 pm »
As usual I'm going to pop in out of nowhere and agree with Vulnus.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 05:53:27 pm by SiegeLion »
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Exodus

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2015, 04:20:41 pm »
I wanna hop on the bandwagon and agree with Vulny too!
Jesus Exodus, your like an adorable little terrorball.

saltmummy626

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2015, 10:10:13 pm »
Knowing Jorb and Loftar, they aren't going to bother with "their side" of it. Even before now, it was obvious that they gave less than a shit what the community thinks of them and even before now, I found them both to be the shittiest people Id ever encountered. they made a decent game though.

I know from experience that H&H requires a sizable time sink, as quiet a few simple tasks take quiet a bit of time. That being said, from what I've read, a lot of the quick and simple tasks were given a time rework. fishing for example. catching fish before was a fairly simple task that required about thirty minutes to catch enough fish to last a single person about a day or two or in game work, if they didn't drink any water or use any stamina recovery methods outside of natural recovery. (drinking water, sitting in chairs) Fishing in haven 2 takes a long time, even when fishing in good fish spots, you will be lucky to catch anything in half an hour.

In the old game, if you wanted to forage, it would usually take a sizable portion of your time. about a half an hour to fill your inventory with the things you actually wanted at a low skill level. hunting also takes time, more so if you're skills are low and the animal you are after is dangerous, and that food won't last long if you decide to go for making sausage so you can raise your stats. to get that sausage grinder though, you need hard metal. forget the massive hassle of testing cave walls or trying to use rust root to find a mine. the simple task of mining (which I did a huge amount of) requires long stretches of time and ungodly amounts of food. it takes, depending on the hardness of the wall, about a minute to get one unit of stone or ore from a wall. each wall USUALLY has 3 to 5 bits of material in it. I would dig around for something like two hours at a time as long as the food kept coming. when the food ran out, Id have to stop mining and start hunting. (this is with a village at my back btw)

I don't even know why im talking about all this. In a very round about way, I guess im saying that H&H gets pretty goddamn tedious, and while I once really liked it, Im not paying for tedium. They do need money, but I don't have it, and I certainly wouldn't pay for something under this payment model even if I did. I wish I'd known about it BEFORE my hype boner had ice water dumped on it.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 10:13:26 pm by saltmummy626 »
I'm really just a sexy skeleton in a suit.
Fingering techniques are very important
Quote from: Six
Using guns while sober? Sounds like you're a coward.
Yes, little hats for every noodle.
Everyone is forks it seems.
"Everything is fucked forever, and ever, and ever." -Forrest 2016

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2015, 10:11:48 pm »
Its a Subscription, right? I would pay a One Time Fee, but im not paying 15 bucks a month for that shit.
Thanks Peri for making me question muh sexualities once again.
Utterly Mad, where various people self identify as kitchenware.

saltmummy626

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Re: Haven and Hearth (nevermind)
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2015, 10:15:10 pm »
yeah, its sub. you can play for free, but only for 12 hours a month. if you pay them 15$, you can play for 24 hours a month AND get access to the old game for as long as they keep it around.
or you can buy subscription packages, the cheapest being 10$ for 30 days and the most expensive being 300$ for 365 days.

Also they are selling hats.

[edit]
There's been a change, you can now play for 7 hours a week. It's better, but it's still not good.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 07:26:07 pm by saltmummy626 »
I'm really just a sexy skeleton in a suit.
Fingering techniques are very important
Quote from: Six
Using guns while sober? Sounds like you're a coward.
Yes, little hats for every noodle.
Everyone is forks it seems.
"Everything is fucked forever, and ever, and ever." -Forrest 2016

 

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