Utterly Mad
The Pit => Creative Endeavors => Topic started by: ajwilli1 on March 05, 2015, 01:53:44 pm
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Yeah I do agree, but sadly even WW2 is getting ignored in favor of this PMC "future" warfare type shit. Honestly it was cool at first, but now it just seems so generic and dated. The guns are all the same fully-automatic bullet spitter, hitscan weapons, that you literally never have to worry about ammo. Guns in WW2 and WW1 were shitty, unique, and all of them had a different feel.
I'm hoping that those World at War 2 rumors are true, because if it is WW1 or WW2 I'll will gladly buy it despite the CoD name.
Now onto what you were saying about WW1, the problem I'm mainly seeing with it is this: the whole entire thing would work like a roguelike, which is a very niche genre. You'll be sitting in a trench hoping you don't lose a limb, get sick, go into shellshock, or getting gassed out. While the idea is interesting, the game would get boring quickly as an FPS, since most of the frontlines never really moved if you focus on the more famous trenches.
Honestly if it were in the style or Gods Will Be Watching or This War Of Mine, I could see it working perfectly. You control your squad and everyday something terrible could happen to them, when you head out to secure a trench it goes into RTS X-Com mode. You move from cover to cover, trying to avoid being shelled, taking potshots at the enemy. And if you're lucky enough and RNGesus smiled at you. The trench will be taken and the enemy won't notice that its gone. Then you'll be stuck in that trench until back up arrives.
Hell you could even have a base building mechanic to make the best trench ever. Setting up traps, digging out rooms and tunnels, and setting up guard positions like DF.
But as an FPS the deary setting might become to dull to look at visually. And your only real option in the fight would be to "camp" because you don't have the right weapons to legitimately run and gun.
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Honestly, even in films WW1 is mostly neglected.
I think one of the best WW1 trench warfare movie scenes actually came from that horse movie...Warhorse. I don't know, it was just so fun to watch those guys finally take a trench and then suddenly.
'Oops, does it smell like toxic gas in here to anyone else?'
Yeah...Trench warfare would make an amazing RTS/Basebuilding game. However as an actual soldier it could only work in a railroaded storyline sort of game.
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WW1 MMO game. think about it, get the best players to take command of a given number of other players, and force them to work together to claim land and such. so, yeah, a good deal of the FPS experiance would be small scale skirmishes and snipe fests, and then the order to go over the top comes in. also, respawn several miles away from the front, so you try not to get killed, and just make the whole thing a big operation. mabye 400? players a server at a time. might be cool.
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The only WW1 games I know are Verdun and a flash game called 'Warfare: 1914' or something like that. So yeah, completely ignored opportunity for a games, as has been previously stated.
With all these great suggestions for WW1 games posted in this thread, it saddens me that none of us have actual coding ability. (I think)
You know what pisses me off? When these fucking spider dudes use their fancy web bullshit to get you stuck, then they try to eat you! Bunch of dicks, If you ask me.*
*Except you Jakers. You're the sexiest of beasts.
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I wouldn't mind learning coding, but I think for what we're talking we'd need more then just one person.
From the sounds of it we'd be looking at an FPS of some sort, so we'd probably need a 3d modeler, then of course a coder, probably somethings I don't know about.
that is unless we make a roguelike of sorts, then we'd just need some coders.
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Set during the great war, you know, the war before the over-the-top sequel.
I think you mean the over-the-top war before the more modernized sequel.
/WWI joke.
You guys should try Verdun. It's not AAA, but if you get into the right game, it does put a fear of gas and machine guns into you. Also, you can indeed use the corpses of your fallen comrades for cover, though some whiney people consider this an exploit.
Besides, I need three good people for my squad who can accept that it's not about CODing it across no man's land before getting chopped up by maxims kill counts but teamwork.
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Set during the great war, you know, the war before the over-the-top sequel.
I think you mean the over-the-top war before the more modernized sequel.
/WWI joke.
You guys should try Verdun. It's not AAA, but if you get into the right game, it does put a fear of gas and machine guns into you. Also, you can indeed use the corpses of your fallen comrades for cover, though some whiney people consider this an exploit.
Besides, I need three good people for my squad who can accept that it's not about CODing it across no man's land before getting chopped up by maxims kill counts but teamwork.
Damn, I need to get a better PC already so I can run and play game like these. I also need a job... and money.
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Yeah, I want to get Verdun but I don't have the money right now.
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I have a spare Steam copy I was gonna give to a RL buddy before he made it clear it's not his sort of game, but my real gaming computer is on the fritz. Something could maybe be arranged once I get that sorted out.
I don't think the requirements are too high as it plays reasonably well on the girlfriend's crappy laptop. I have no idea what the specs on this are, but if you can run X-Com EU without much frustration you should be able to play Verdun.
Honestly if it were in the style or Gods Will Be Watching or This War Of Mine, I could see it working perfectly. You control your squad and everyday something terrible could happen to them, when you head out to secure a trench it goes into RTS X-Com mode. You move from cover to cover, trying to avoid being shelled, taking potshots at the enemy. And if you're lucky enough and RNGesus smiled at you. The trench will be taken and the enemy won't notice that its gone. Then you'll be stuck in that trench until back up arrives.
Hell you could even have a base building mechanic to make the best trench ever. Setting up traps, digging out rooms and tunnels, and setting up guard positions like DF.
I missed this on my first readthrough.
Just as a thought:
If anyone here can code, Xenonauts could probably be modded into something very much like this much more easily than a new game could be built. The combat system and stuff would be a simple re-texture, and I'm pretty sure most of that other stuff could be put into the worldmap somehow.
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I'd pay lots for a WW1 RTS running on the company of heroes engine!
There is a mod... But I find it Lacking.
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Yeah, from what I understand modifying an existing game is a lot easier since you've already got the groundwork done.
Though I think at this point we've moved into 'Last Man Gaming' territory here, since this thread is for venting frustrations.
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Oh I can assure you that I'm still mighty frustrated of this matter.
That won't stop anyone from pitching in their own frustration, now will it?
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I have a spare Steam copy I was gonna give to a RL buddy before he made it clear it's not his sort of game, but my real gaming computer is on the fritz. Something could maybe be arranged once I get that sorted out.
I don't think the requirements are too high as it plays reasonably well on the girlfriend's crappy laptop. I have no idea what the specs on this are, but if you can run X-Com EU without much frustration you should be able to play Verdun.
Honestly if it were in the style or Gods Will Be Watching or This War Of Mine, I could see it working perfectly. You control your squad and everyday something terrible could happen to them, when you head out to secure a trench it goes into RTS X-Com mode. You move from cover to cover, trying to avoid being shelled, taking potshots at the enemy. And if you're lucky enough and RNGesus smiled at you. The trench will be taken and the enemy won't notice that its gone. Then you'll be stuck in that trench until back up arrives.
Hell you could even have a base building mechanic to make the best trench ever. Setting up traps, digging out rooms and tunnels, and setting up guard positions like DF.
I missed this on my first readthrough.
Just as a thought:
If anyone here can code, Xenonauts could probably be modded into something very much like this much more easily than a new game could be built. The combat system and stuff would be a simple re-texture, and I'm pretty sure most of that other stuff could be put into the worldmap somehow.
Can I have the game, please?
Yeah, from what I understand modifying an existing game is a lot easier since you've already got the groundwork done.
Though I think at this point we've moved into 'Last Man Gaming' territory here, since this thread is for venting frustrations.
Splitting now.
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I was turned into a banana by a unicorn-witch.
This is frustrating.
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Fuck, now how do I move it to the right subforum?
SORRY I AM A NOOB MODERATOOORRRR.
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I wouldn't mind learning coding, but I think for what we're talking we'd need more then just one person.
From the sounds of it we'd be looking at an FPS of some sort, so we'd probably need a 3d modeler, then of course a coder, probably somethings I don't know about.
that is unless we make a roguelike of sorts, then we'd just need some coders.
hmmm........ I can 3D model. I'm pretty bad at it, as I'm out of practice, but I would be down with it. Also, what engine would we be looking at? I'm a unity noob, but I can make an ok map for it to send if necessary. I'm also a Source engine noob.
also, I would be willing to pirate Verdun to play with ye, as currently in flat outa DOSH.
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I have no idea what engine we'd use, never really looked or thought about making a game before. But I know of a great resource for learning coding languages.
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Unity would pry be better, as its easy to use and source lags like a bitch with more than 60 peeps at a time.
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Alright then, well I guess I better head over to codeacademy and get started refreshing what I learned previously and then learn what I need to know.
Heard good things about unity, but we'd need to buy some things. At this point though I think I need to learn the coding.
EDIT: Well from what I've heard we'd need to buy some things, not sure though.
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Alright then, well I guess I better head over to codeacademy and get started refreshing what I learned previously and then learn what I need to know.
Heard good things about unity, but we'd need to buy some things. At this point though I think I need to learn the coding.
EDIT: Well from what I've heard we'd need to buy some things, not sure though.
I got a separate program just for mapmaking, so that is a non issue. All you need to buy for unity is 3d models if you can't model.
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Anybody else want to join me in coding?
Also: Sounds good then.
EDIT: Since I'm pretty well going to be learning from scratch, since it's been a month or so since I last went to learn how to do this.
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Engine questions
I don't know what unity costs, but it might be overkill. I think realistically what would be the best option would depend on what this game will be.
If it's a FPS, then to me the big appeal is being able to have 200 guys charge out of a trench with fixed bayonets. I'd maybe suggest the mount and blade engine in that case since it doesn't have much trouble doing this when those bayonets are on muskets rather than rifles. Not pretty stuff, but realistically, how many of you besides myself have ridiculous AAA gaming rigs*? When you have that much shit going on (gas and horses and mortars and machine guns and CHARGE! and stuff), do you really pay much attention to how things look? They have also made everything from a standalone GS/FPS pirate game to a marching band simulator out of this.
If it's an RTS, then I don't really care about how it looks or amount of people in MP as long as there is no unit cap beyond what you can produce.
A grand strategy/RTS hybrid has always struck me as something WWI would be suited to - this is why I suggested modding Xenonauts. Unfortunately, I don't think whatever they built that on is at all capable of MP support, and is probably proprietary. Might be worth looking at whatever Running With Rifles is built on in this case - engine has MP and strategic elements could be introduced.
*Don't buy one. It's a waste of money when 90% you play is ascii games or games built to run on Pentium 3s.
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Anybody else want to join me in coding?
Also: Sounds good then.
well, time to become a pro at unity. Also, unity is free. Unless you want some unnecessary bits and bobs.
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Engine questions
I don't know what unity costs, but it might be overkill. I think realistically what would be the best option would depend on what this game will be.
If it's a FPS, then to me the big appeal is being able to have 200 guys charge out of a trench with fixed bayonets. I'd maybe suggest the mount and blade engine in that case since it doesn't have much trouble doing this when those bayonets are on muskets rather than rifles. Not pretty stuff, but realistically, how many of you besides myself have ridiculous AAA gaming rigs*? When you have that much shit going on (gas and horses and mortars and machine guns and CHARGE! and stuff), do you really pay much attention to how things look? They have also made everything from a standalone GS/FPS pirate game to a marching band simulator out of this.
If it's an RTS, then I don't really care about how it looks or amount of people in MP as long as there is no unit cap beyond what you can produce.
A grand strategy/RTS hybrid has always struck me as something WWI would be suited to - this is why I suggested modding Xenonauts. Unfortunately, I don't think whatever they built that on is at all capable of MP support, and is probably proprietary. Might be worth looking at whatever Running With Rifles is built on in this case - engine has MP and strategic elements could be introduced.
*Don't buy one. It's a waste of money when 90% you play is ascii games or games built to run on Pentium 3s.
my PC is a top of the line beast with monster level hardware. I play 2000 man mount and blade battles and arma3 maxed out with a 4km draw distance. And crisis on max.
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I've been hearing a lot of talk about no good WW1 games...
Valiant Hearts: The Great War
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NCU-1Dxd4)
Enough flippin said.
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I've been hearing a lot of talk about no good WW1 games...
Valiant Hearts: The Great War
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NCU-1Dxd4)
Enough flippin said.
Read closer, we're talking RTS and FPS
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Well shit, if it's free than you can count me in as someone willing to learn to code. I will be useless for around half a year while I figure that out, just a heads up.
*bows to Peri's computer*
Add me on steam, you can haz my spare Verdun since you'll certainly be able to run it. Might be a few days before I get the proper computer working properly, but hey.
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Now I just need to figure out what language I need to learn, well languages probably. I don't know if javascript would be useful, and I'm unsure what exactly I'd need to learn.
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Well shit, if it's free than you can count me in as someone willing to learn to code. I will be useless for around half a year while I figure that out, just a heads up.
*bows to Peri's computer*
but, as a trade off, I have a 500 kbs modem. Ehh. I'm thinking about doing YouTube videos where I just walk around and look at pretty things. Also, send me a game, and if I own it, I'll get the prettiest screenshots ever from it. Also, wot with unity, I'm a complete beginner. So we all have much to learn.
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Now I just need to figure out what language I need to learn, well languages probably. I don't know if javascript would be useful, and I'm unsure what exactly I'd need to learn.
most unity tutorials are written for JavaScript, and it is comparable with most languages, but, like I said, JavaScript is the most common one.
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Alright, thanks. Java is thankfully on code academy.
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I've been hearing a lot of talk about no good WW1 games...
Valiant Hearts: The Great War
-snip-
Enough flippin said.
Read closer, we're talking RTS and FPS
But I mean as a WWI game in general. This thread was started as WWI games, Not just FPS and RTS.
But if I were to give an idea for a WWI FPS, I like the MMOFPS approach. PlanetSide 1 and 2 were able to do it, and one of them is like 10 years old.
Generals in back giving orders to guys upfront, guys up front following or disobeying those orders. (Following orders give points, which you can use to sustain healthiness in the trenches. If you disobey however, you may get sick, hungry, or exhausted because of a lack of funds. And yes, WWI didn't work like that, but it gives people incentive to follow orders!)
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I actually like the idea of a round based game, where people get put into random groups, with a random captain, and a overall leader in an rts role. The captains get orders from the commander, and give them to the men. Also, combined arms, with a tank squad and artillery squad supporting the infantry. Due to the realistic nature of it, and the fact that death comes quick, and lasts till the end of the round, you listen to the commander, or you die. Might let people form battle groups in advance, and get put in with other preformed groups, so as to prevent the pugs from getting curbstomped by premades. (throwing around mmo jargon there).
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I think you guys are thinking a bit big there since I do believe this will be the first game any of us have worked on.
Also, code rage: fuck you code academy I'm doing the substring exactly like you are telling me to and you still refuse to let me pass this damn thing!
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Heh. Not all at once. Content patches. Start with small units, move up.
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Oh, and I just remembered we need a 3d animator to animate the models.
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Wait...are you guys seriously making a WW1 game?
I would probably play a WW1 RTS, as long as it wasn't horribly graphical and violent.
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I think we're going to give it a shot.
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I actually like the idea of a round based game, where people get put into random groups, with a random captain, and a overall leader in an rts role. The captains get orders from the commander, and give them to the men. Also, combined arms, with a tank squad and artillery squad supporting the infantry. Due to the realistic nature of it, and the fact that death comes quick, and lasts till the end of the round, you listen to the commander, or you die. Might let people form battle groups in advance, and get put in with other preformed groups, so as to prevent the pugs from getting curbstomped by premades. (throwing around mmo jargon there).
I like the idea of High rank = RTS; Low rank = FPS and so on.
The only one problem I can see with entirely player based games, are those dumbs we all know about. The people who disobey on purpose to get everyone else killed.
Them damn griefers.
Just imagine a person like that got into an artillery position or tank squad, they could Friendly Fire the fuck out of everybody on that one team.
Oh, and I just remembered we need a 3d animator to animate the models.
Animation? Pffft. Function over Form m8 (JK that's also pretty important. But getting the game to function first with static T-pose models will probably be first on the checklist.)
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Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Probably a hybrid game, like Battlezone 2 or NS2.
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Yeah, stuck on substrings right now, think I'll pick back up tomorrow.
Anyway, for now I think we all need to get ready, learning to code and work what all we'll need to.
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Yeah, stuck on substrings right now, think I'll pick back up tomorrow.
Anyway, for now I think we all need to get ready, learning to code and work what all we'll need to.
I'll get a test map with a few guns working tomorrow ( the mapmaker comes with a couple guns and zombie ai to test maps with)
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I'll give morale support, cause thats all I know how to do! :D
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I actually have played a game where it shifts between RTS and FPS depending on rank. Think it's set in a fictional semi-futuristic cold war. Really, really cool concept, but in practice, the FPS guys do not ever do what the RTS guys tell them to. We'd have to find a way to counteract that. Autoshot for desertion seems plausible, but might be a little frustrating. Maybe the RTS guys control a grand overview, where they can say unit 1, 2, and 3 go fight at vimy, which then leads to them having a realtime FPS battle there, while unit 5 and 6 go fight over a nameless hill with offmap artillery support. They'd have to fight, because otherwise they'd have nothing to do.
It would make sense to have the strategic point in real time too, though maybe not to be able to see the outcome of battles until after a timer has run out (which would also make sense in this setting). Thus, you could be pounding a now friendly trench with arty in which all the enemies are already dead if you do it without being requested to by the guys "on the ground", or you could accidentally send some reinforcements into a battle long lost. My issue with RTS games is that most of them require more macro usage than actual thought and tactics, this sort of thing would require a commander to actually be a commander. Could really get into it with logistical choices (stick these new players in squad 1 or squad 5? who has better "soldiers" and can still achieve the objective without backup? More ammo for the frontlines, or save some for the machineguns in reserve incase that line actually broke two minutes ago and the survivors haven't regrouped for redeployment yet?) too.
Just an idea.
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I actually have played a game where it shifts between RTS and FPS depending on rank. Think it's set in a fictional semi-futuristic cold war. Really, really cool concept, but in practice, the FPS guys do not ever do what the RTS guys tell them to. We'd have to find a way to counteract that. Autoshot for desertion seems plausible, but might be a little frustrating. Maybe the RTS guys control a grand overview, where they can say unit 1, 2, and 3 go fight at vimy, which then leads to them having a realtime FPS battle there, while unit 5 and 6 go fight over a nameless hill with offmap artillery support. Just an idea.
or just let the general appoint commisars to execute deserters, dissenters, dissobediants, and dumbasses. Actually, mabye, have several generals who play a grand strategy game, with a set group of men to use under them to do fps battles, where they will be put in squads led by a captain, and ignoring orders long enough means a free RDM from the captain. Idk how, I need to get a game design document up, and that is going to take forever.
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General assigns orders
Captain organizes and commands men in combat
Deserters (AKA the guys who don't follow orders) are marked for execution and are highlighted for the Captain to kill
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I edited my above post and fleshed it out a little more. I like the commissar and huge map thing over smaller maps where people are forced to fight or die. Maybe I'm just dreaming, but so far this sound slike one of the coolest games I've never played.
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Well, I think first things first is to start smaller and then get bigger as we figure out how. Also, substrings are annoying as hell but got them down I do believe. anyway, for now I think developing a small squad based combat will be benificial and then work on making the battles bigger.
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Ok, I'm going too, in addition to learning unity and modeling, going to write up a game design doc. First a fibe page outline, then a massive thing to guide every little bit. Also, I'm thinking we start with the battles, and build the meta from there. Mabye let the generals both have a pool of points at first to get supplies and equipment.
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Yes, we need some guide lines on how this is. Also, I love how we've over the course of maybe two hours decided to take on making a large scale game.
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General assigns orders
Captain organizes and commands men in combat
Deserters (AKA the guys who don't follow orders) are marked for execution and are highlighted for the Captain to kill
Oooorrrrr
Generals in back giving orders to guys upfront, guys up front following or disobeying those orders. (Following orders give points, which you can use to sustain healthiness in the trenches. If you disobey however, you may get sick, hungry, or exhausted because of a lack of funds. And yes, WWI didn't work like that, but it gives people incentive to follow orders!)
by points I mean money/marks/lods of dosh, as you need to keep yourself fed and stuff by buying stuff in your dugout!
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Yes, we need some guide lines on how this is. Also, I love how we've over the course of maybe two hours decided to take on making a large scale game.
why not? Its not like I have a social life, so I might as well make something. Also, I've been trying to get into game making for a while now, so why not with some other peeps.
also, Commissars are more fun than trenchfoot.
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Yes, we need some guide lines on how this is. Also, I love how we've over the course of maybe two hours decided to take on making a large scale game.
That's how I like to imagine the idea for Dwarf Fortress* came to be.
*There was another game they made before that, but you get the point.
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Yes, we need some guide lines on how this is. Also, I love how we've over the course of maybe two hours decided to take on making a large scale game.
That's how I like to imagine the idea for Dwarf Fortress* came to be.
*There was another game they made before that, but you get the point.
Would that other game, coincidentally enough, be WWI Medic?
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Yes, we need some guide lines on how this is. Also, I love how we've over the course of maybe two hours decided to take on making a large scale game.
That's how I like to imagine the idea for Dwarf Fortress* came to be.
*There was another game they made before that, but you get the point.
Would that other game, coincidentally enough, be WWI Medic?
first, slaves to armok 1. And some other stuff. Dwarf fortress is technically a sequel.
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Yes, we need some guide lines on how this is. Also, I love how we've over the course of maybe two hours decided to take on making a large scale game.
That's how I like to imagine the idea for Dwarf Fortress* came to be.
*There was another game they made before that, but you get the point.
Would that other game, coincidentally enough, be WWI Medic?
Yes, and no. It is both, and it is none. It may not be the hero the trenches wants, but it is the hero the trenches deserves. It is...
WWI Medic
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Yes, we need some guide lines on how this is. Also, I love how we've over the course of maybe two hours decided to take on making a large scale game.
That's how I like to imagine the idea for Dwarf Fortress* came to be.
*There was another game they made before that, but you get the point.
Would that other game, coincidentally enough, be WWI Medic?
first, slaves to armok 1. And some other stuff. Dwarf fortress is technically a sequel.
*Spiritual Sequel
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Ahem.
You want a Rts and fps where lower ranks follow orders.
Look up the game Natural Selection 2 abd I think you'll find a good guideline.
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Ahem.
You want a Rts and fps where lower ranks follow orders.
Look up the game Natural Selection 2 abd I think you'll find a good guideline.
my brother has put close to 600 hours in ns2, and I've clocked a good 20. Its really good.
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If this hasn't died yet then in the experience I've had in the game development world, I'd suggest that this project is far too ambitious for even a group of people with little to no experience, even if one or two of you had some experience it would still be difficult.
However not impossible. Start small, I mean really small, you're not gonna start by making the game you want, you're gonna start by barely making a crappy Mario clone, but it'll give you that valuable experience, slowly work up to this kind of project and eventually you'll make something absolutely magnificent.
Also I'd like to point out, if you're going in a multiplayer direction with this it'll likely be impossible for you to do without professional education on game development, a lot of experience and the money to rent, or own, a server.
But all in all, good luck with this, I hope the project carries on and one day does well for itself.
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Aim high enough, and even if you fail you might reach the sky first.
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It's a difficult thing with game development, yes you should aim high so that what you produce doesn't suck, but at the same time you have to work within your current capabilities in order to expand those capabilities, because anyone, absolutely anyone, is capable of producing AAA quality games given enough experience with game development.
I'm just suggesting to start small because it makes the entire process a lot less frustrating and complicated further down the line.
A lot of the stuff I say has been covered by other people who teach this stuff, way better than I do, for free. Checking out their resources is always a good idea, I'd point you over to the Extra Credits YouTube channel for a lot of it, I certainly learnt a few things from them fairly recently that I wish I'd thought about a long time ago when I was active in Game Development.
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Actually, I was thinking about first making a platformer, staring Solaire of Astora, called Super Sun Bros. cant be too hard to make a platformer.
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Platformers are a brilliant place to start, you gain quite a bit of valuable experience you don't really think about from making a decent platformer, and once you know what you're doing it's real easy, with the right creativity that I'm sure you have, to make something excellent.